Eight interview tips when applying to an MFT graduate program

Don’t call yourself a perfectionist, for one thing.

              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              

Wikipedia-academy-2009-nih-tim-interviewAs the academic year begins, we also rapidly approach the time of year for admissions interviews, those high-pressure days when prospective MFT graduate students have anywhere from just a few minutes to a full day to impress their chosen programs. I have been doing admissions interviews for six years now. Along the way, I have seen marginal students get into their desired program on the strength of a good interview — and I have seen academically strong students whose poor interviewing ultimately kept them out of the programs they sought.

There are a number of good guides out there that can help with general interviewing skills. This post is intended to highlight those behaviors that, in my opinion, can have particular (and sometimes unexpected) weight in interviews specifically for family therapy graduate programs.

Please bear in mind that all of this is simply my own opinion and experience. Every interviewer and every program is different. Still, I hope these help in your preparation. They are in no particular order. If you are interviewing soon, good luck!!

Assume that the whole time you are on campus is your interview. In other words, remain your charming, professional self even in times that seem more informal, such as meal breaks or meetings with current students. Many programs use these opportunities to gain a more complete impression of applicants, and do consider feedback from everyone who has met you in the admissions process when making their decisions.

Be specific. Sometimes, interviewees keep their answers short and simple to avoid saying anything the interviewers may find off-putting. This strikes me as unwise. The interview is the chance for the program to get to know you; take it! If you’re still a mystery after the interview, they might rightly wonder how successful you would be at building relationships with other new people (namely, clients). Talk in specific terms about your skills, your goals, and your experience. If your answers lead the program to turn you down, then you weren’t a good fit in that program anyway — and better to know in advance.

Set yourself apart. A lot of candidates spend time highlighting traits that are generally positive, but common in the pool of applicants you’re competing with. Talking up common strengths (like organization, multitasking, working well with others, and having a passion for the field) is unlikely to hurt you, but does little to help. Be prepared with specific examples of you demonstrating those strengths, and spend a majority of your time talking about pieces that make you unique. These might include specific work, research, or volunteer experiences relevant to the field; international or multicultural experiences that led you to develop specific skills (if you are multilingual, particularly highlight that); or other skills or experiences you have that others in the applicant pool probably don’t have. The more of these kinds of traits you can highlight, the more the program may see you as a uniquely qualified candidate instead of just one among many.

If your interviewer asks what your flaws or struggles are, do not say you are a “perfectionist.” It sounds at first like a good answer — after all, it means you are driven to succeed, right? In fact, interviewers may see it as a red flag. It looks like you could be trying to dodge the question with salesmanship instead of just answering it, like the interviewee for a corporate job who says his biggest problem is that he just. cares. too. much. about the company. If you do label yourself a perfectionist in an interview, hope that the interviewers see it as a dodge; that is actually the friendlier interpretation. Because if you are telling the truth about being a perfectionist, you are admitting that you are the kind of student who suffers paralyzing anxiety at the thought of screwing up anything, large or small. That does not leave a good impression among those who would be trying to teach you. Ideally, therapists (and students) want to do well, but also allow themselves the freedom to learn from their mistakes without doing what true perfectionists do: getting defensive or down on themselves in the face of even mild criticism or failure. Simply put, wanting to do well is a desirable personality trait in an applicant. Desperately needing to be perfect is not.

Avoid platitudes. Presumably you would not be applying to an MFT program if you did not want to “help people.” If you want to show your kind and generous spirit, be specific: Who in particular do you want to help, and why them? Similarly, it is safe to assume that all the applicants with whom you are competing would like to “make a difference.” Using phrases like these on their own is just wasting words; they do nothing to set you apart, and if anything, they can arouse skepticism on the part of your interviewers. Be prepared to explain such statements in greater depth. Better yet, avoid the platitudes entirely and cut to the chase.

Know your interviewers. If you know in advance who will be interviewing you, look online to see what you can learn about their research interests, the classes they teach, and their recent presentations or publications. (In smaller programs, learn what you can about *all* the faculty; that way you can talk intelligently about whose interests most closely align with yours.)

Be direct and brief with any negative discussion. Interviewers may ask about prior struggles you have had, especially if they see a low GPA on your transcript or see that you left prior work positions abruptly. Family therapy faculty are going to be particularly interested in how you handled such difficult personal interactions, knowing that managing conflict professionally and respectfully is a major part of what you will be expected to do as a student and as a therapist. When discussing other people or institutions with which you have had conflict, keep your discussion of others’ actions short, factual, and fair. Take responsibility for your part in the problem. And talk in specific terms about what you learned from it, and how you have put those lessons into action.

Ask questions. The admissions interview is a two-way street. A program that accepts you only benefits if you actually enroll in classes. Come to your interview prepared with at least 2-3 questions about the program (here are a few things worth asking an MFT program about), the faculty, or other students. Of course, keep time constraints in mind when determining just how much to ask about during the interview process. Understand if your interviewers can’t answer all of your questions right away, or if they deflect some questions to program staff; they are under a time schedule, and no one person is likely to know every detail of program information. If they offer the opportunity to follow up via phone or email to get those questions answered, take them up on it.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, every program and every interviewer is different. If you have other tips you can share with future interviewees, including tips on interviewing at specific programs, please feel free to share them in the comments.

On ethics and CAMFT’s record of published statements about AAMFT

In their own words.
                                                                      
                                                                                                                                            
                                                                
All bold text is my emphasis added.

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“Marriage and family therapists, when acting as teachers, supervisors, and researchers, stay abreast of changes in the field, maintain relevant standards of scholarship, and present accurate information.”
CAMFT Code of Ethics, principle 3.5

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On AAMFT and AAMFT-CA’s legislative interest

CAMFT statement: “The opposition [to the LPC bill] in California from AAMFT and AAMFT-CA never surfaced until 2007 and their legislative interest was limited to this single effort – this single piece of legislation.”
– CAMFT Feature Article, The Therapist magazine, March/April 2008

Fact check 1: “Assembly bill 894, introduced last year, would create a professional counselor (LPC) license in the State of California. While AAMFT-CA has no objection to the licensure of mental health professions, we had major concerns with the content of this bill, and therefore took a position of opposition. […] I spoke to the legislature’s Joint Committee on Boards, Commissions, and Consumer Protection in November [2005] to let them know our position and the reasoning behind it.”
– AAMFT-CA newsletter, Legislative and Advocacy column, Spring 2006

Fact check 2:Among our accomplishments in 2007, we have worked with the BBS to improve license portability into California. […] We also helped to defeat the bill that would have created an LPC (licensed professional counselor) license in California […] We are not opposed in principle to counselor licensure […] We also have been very vocal with the BBS in helping shape the new educational requirements for MFT graduate programs, which are likely to be put into legislation next year.”
AAMFT-CA newsletter, Legislative and Advocacy column, Fall 2007

Fact check 3:In 2007 the AAMFT experienced many successes on important advocacy initiatives. In particular, the AAMFT is pleased to announce that we were successful in obtaining participation for MFTs in the U.S. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Service Administration (SAMHSA) Minority Fellowship Program. […] Also, for the first time, the US House of Representatives passed a bill including MFTs in Medicare.”
– Membership renewal message from the AAMFT Executive Director, 2008

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On working collaboratively

CAMFT statement: “CAMFT has approached the [AAMFT-CA] division about legislative issues that CAMFT is sponsoring to involve them in joining our efforts — efforts to work together to further the interests of the profession. There has been no willingness or interest in working with CAMFT on these legislative matters.
– CAMFT Feature Article, The Therapist magazine, March/April 2008

Fact check: “With the resources I have available [through] AAMFT, I think that a joint and collaborative effort would be valuable. If you let me know when and where the meeting is taking place, I would like to make arrangements to join you.”
– Email regarding counselor legislation from AAMFT-CA Executive Director Olivia Loewy to CAMFT Executive Director Mary Riemersma, March 27, 2007

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On AAMFT’s interest in federal legislative matters

CAMFT statement: “Historically, AAMFT, at the federal level, had no interest in legislative matters. It was actually Richard Leslie at CAMFT who pushed AAMFT, thereby turning the tide on their involvement in federal legislative matters to attempt to advance the MFT profession.”
– CAMFT Feature Article, The Therapist magazine, March/April 2008

Fact check 1: “The association not only incorporated as a trade organization in Washington, but also began a long association when it hired Steven L. Engelberg as legal counsel for Washington (federal) affairs in 1974. […] Failing to make progress in two months of negotiations with the Department of Defense [after CHAMPUS reimbursement for MFTs had been eliminated], the AAMFT sued the DoD for reinstatement on April 26 [1975].”
– William C. Nichols, The AAMFT: Fifty Years of Marital and Family Therapy, pp. 41, 63.

Fact check 2:CAMFT contracted with Richard S. Leslie, Attorney, in 1976.”
– CAMFT Executive Director Mary Riemersma, “The building of a profession”

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On correcting false information, Part I

My correction request: “At the article’s conclusion, Ms. Riemersma writes, “No one gains by steadfastness, an unwillingness to negotiate, and casting barbs at the perceived opposition.” With this, I would agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, much of the Feature Article appears to be an attempt to cast barbs at AAMFT – an organization that, like CAMFT, has the best interests of the profession at heart. Even when the organizations disagree, it serves us best to present information that is clear and accurate.”
– My May 7, 2008 Letter to the Editor requesting CAMFT correct the provable factual errors detailed above

CAMFT response: “Your letter will not be printed in an upcoming issue of The Therapist due to the fact that members are troubled by the debate and do not benefit from it.”
CAMFT response to my request

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On CAMFT informing the legislature (and its members) about a one-license future

CAMFT magazine: “I attended the AAMFT Long Beach Conference where their president Mike Bowers made a pronouncement at a conference forum of about 500 people that Mary Riemersma of CAMFT informed the California legislature that all therapists will hold the same license in the near future! I became alarmed. […] I knew Mary. This could not have been accurate. I called Mary and she quickly informed me of this misinformation.”
– Letter to the Editor, CAMFT’s The Therapist magazine, Jan/Feb 2011, p. 5

Fact check: “CAMFT states, “At some time in the future, we project that there will only be one masters level profession in California, with individuals specializing within that license. Thus, those who wish to specialize in systems work will do so; those who wish to specialize in art therapy will do so, etc. The current system with a variety of acronyms is confusing for consumers who just want to be helped and do not perceive greater value from one professional compared to the next.””
California Senate Committee Analysis of AB1486, July 2007
– Same text appears in a CAMFT email to members, May 24, 2007

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On correcting false information, Part II

My request for correction: “Michael Bowers [is] AAMFT’s Executive Director, not its president […] It is true that Riemersma’s letter refers to “some time in the future,” and not the “near future” as the letter writer wrote – but this minor difference is an error on the part of the letter writer, not Bowers. Bowers quoted, in his speech and in his presentation slides, the exact text the legislative report quoted.”
– My Letter to the Editor again requesting CAMFT correct provable errors of fact

CAMFT response: “Your request to print the proposed correction was denied.”
– CAMFT response email

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Marriage and family therapists treat and communicate with and about colleagues in a respectful manner and with courtesy, fairness, and good faith, and cooperate with colleagues in order to promote the welfare and best interests of patients.”
CAMFT Code of Ethics, principle 5

How should religious therapists handle gay and lesbian clients?

Counselors and therapists with strong religious beliefs sometimes refuse to treat gay and lesbian clients. Some even refuse to offer referrals. Can they do that?                                                                                                               

Homosexuality symbolsSo-called “conscience clauses” are common in health care. They allow professionals to refuse to provide a service within their scope when that service would conflict with the professional’s moral or religious values. In reproductive health, for example, this allows gynecologists to refuse to perform abortions, and allows pharmacists to refuse to distribute birth control, if they find these objectionable.

Such provisions are controversial. The Obama administration has moved to (mostly) end them in federally-funded facilities, and there have been several instances where patients have been harmed — and then filed lawsuits — over treatment refusals based on conscience clauses.

The debate is now coming to mental health, as a result of religious therapists and students taking a stand against treating gay and lesbian clients. These cases point to an interesting contradiction in professional ethical codes:

  • Mental health professionals do not discriminate based on sexual orientation.
  • Mental health professionals do not treat clients outside of their scope of competence.

Though the specific wording varies, versions of those statements can be found in the ethical codes of every major mental health association. When a religious therapist, whose beliefs suggest that homosexuality is immoral[*], is asked to treat a gay or lesbian client (or couple), what should the therapist do?

Offering treatment would abide by the non-discrimination sections of professional ethical codes, but could lead to ineffective — or even harmful — treatment. Religious therapists who, perhaps by their own choosing, lack the training and experience to work effectively with gay and lesbian clients then should not ethically be treating those clients. On the other hand, refusing to treat a client based on the client’s sexual orientation seems to be quite clearly discriminatory.

On issues like this where different parts of a code of ethics conflict, the ethical codes generally do not indicate which standards should take precedence over others. (They also do not allow exceptions based on the therapist’s religious beliefs.) The NASW Code even includes a clear statement that it does not prescribe such an ethical hierarchy, as ethical decision-making is centered around process more than outcome. So no one really knows whether it is ethical for a therapist to refuse to treat clients in same-sex relationships.

Again, allowing a health care provider to refuse to treat clients based on the provider’s religious beliefs is common in other fields (Pharmacy | Medicine), but it comes with an important caveat: The provider usually must give the patient a referral to another provider who would offer the treatment in question. In theory, that should resolve the issue; patients get the services they need while providers maintain their religious convictions. In practice, it only works if that other provider is close at hand. Patients refused services based on religious “conscience clauses” in rural areas, as well as those needing to be treated immediately for the treatment to be effective, are left without options when their provider refuses to treat them for religious reasons — which is precisely why many states put exceptions in their “conscience referral” legislation or simply do not allow such referrals.

Some states already have “conscience clause” laws on the books that do not require any referral at all, which has drawn protest from professional associations who worry that they allow a health care provider’s religious beliefs to “run roughshod over the profession’s code of ethics.”
In the Lincoln (Nebraska) Journal-Star, Rev. Christopher Kubat presented the case that religious therapists should be able to turn away same-sex couples without offering referrals:

Since the Catholic Church teaches that sexual relations are meant for one man and one woman in the context of marriage, if a same-sex couple requests therapy to support, validate or enhance their sexual relationship or something akin to marital therapy, it would be inappropriate to provide that specific, narrow service or make a referral for it, as referring for something considered inappropriate or immoral would itself be inappropriate and immoral because of the element of cooperation.

That strikes me as blatantly discriminatory and harmful to those in need of treatment. It also is theologically consistent.

This is the debate I wish had taken place in CAMFT’s rightly-maligned (and eventually disowned) same-sex-marriage issue of The Therapist. I think there is a legitimate concern on both sides. Religious therapists have an ethical obligation not to refuse treatment based on a client’s sexual orientation. But how can that treatment possibly in the client’s best interests when the therapist’s religion precludes them from in any way supporting the client’s romantic relationship? It seems unlikely. Is there a workable middle ground?

Proposed legislation in California would attempt to at least partially resolve this issue by ensuring all mental health professionals receive training in working with LGBT populations. That may be helpful when it comes to establishing competence, but likely will not change anyone’s religious beliefs.

I do not pretend to have the answer here, though I am optimistic such an answer exists. I wish all clients, regardless of sexuality, could receive competent and accepting treatment anywhere they seek it. I also do not want any of the talented religious therapists I know to feel like they need to betray their religious beliefs to work as mental health professionals. I just wish there were a place for honest, genuine, respectful debate on this issue that could land on some ethics code language on which both sides could agree. Is there a place for that?

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* – For clarity’s sake, of course not all religious therapists believe that homosexuality is immoral, or would refuse to treat gay or lesbian clients. I personally know many strongly religious therapists who see no conflict at all in offering their professional services to clients regardless of sexual orientation.

Study: Marriage stays satisfying over time for many more than previously thought

Newlywed couples, once thought to consistently experience a quick drop in satisfaction, actually often remain just as happy (or close to it) over time, according to a recent study. For couples who do get worse, the reasons can be evident early on. The study’s author comments.                       

Wedding ringsAccording to a study published late last year in Family Process, the rapid decline in marital satisfaction following a couple’s wedding — generally thought to be quite normal — is actually something many couples manage to avoid. The “average” couple experiences a drop because for some couples, satisfaction declines precipitously. But many couples, including the most satisfied, actually remain fairly stable in their marital happiness.

Justin Lavner and Thomas Bradbury at UCLA monitored the progression of marital satisfaction over time among 232 couples, starting soon after the couples were married. They found that couples’ progressions in happiness clustered into five different groups. For the three groups who started out the most satisfied, they tended to stay at about the same level (or decline only minimally) in the four years after their wedding day. For the two groups who started married life less satisfied, things tended to get significantly worse with time — dragging down the population average. As might be expected, among those five groups, divorce rates varied significantly, with the groups whose satisfaction declined over time far more likely to split up.

I asked Lavner a number of questions via email about the study and its implications. The following has been edited for length and clarity. My questions are in bold, and Lavner’s responses are in plain text.

BC: How would you describe your findings in plain language, and what surprised you the most?

JL: We set out to examine one of the most often-cited “facts” about marriage — that satisfaction declines as marriage goes on. We wondered whether this average pattern obscured different patterns that couples experience, and if so, what factors characterized people who had different patterns and how these patterns related to later divorce rates.

We found that although the average pattern is indeed one of declining satisfaction, there are a few different patterns that better characterize newlyweds’ marriages over the first four years, including very high, stable trajectories, as well as marriages that start off low in satisfaction and experience large declines very quickly.

Spouses with negative patterns could be distinguished by a range of factors as early as six months into marriage. These included their personality characteristics, how they interacted with their partners during a 10-minute problem-solving discussion, how much aggression they reported, and how much stress they had in their lives. Importantly, these early patterns related to ten-year divorce rates: couples with the worst trajectories had rates of divorce that were more than four times as high as those couples with the best trajectories!

I think the finding that surprised me the most was how early these differences emerged. All of the factors that distinguished between patterns were found at six months into marriage, and some couples were already dissatisfied by then. To me, this suggests that there is a lot more variability in couples early in their relationships than we had previously thought.

BC: I was amazed at the wide disparity in divorce rates for couples based on their marital satisfaction trajectories. How do you think this data can be used to inform and improve treatment for couples at risk of divorce?

JL: We often hear that satisfaction declines as marriage goes on. While that may be true on average, what’s really powerful about this data is that they highlight how couples vary widely in the likelihood their relationships will deteriorate, and also give us a better idea of what types of characteristics make couples more likely to experience negative marital trajectories. Using this kind of data, we can be more targeted in our relationship education interventions and direct services toward those couples who need them most.

BC: One of your key findings is that for both husbands and wives, Personality, Stress, Aggression, and Positive Affect distinguished trajectory groups. What does this suggest for identification and treatment of at-risk couples? Do we need multiple forms of therapy geared toward couples with different traits?

JL: These findings indicate that those couples with the greatest distress (and at highest risk of divorce) are characterized by a full range of negative personality traits, experience more stress, report more aggression, and demonstrate lower levels of positive affect. This suggests that focusing on any one factor in treatment will not be sufficient: for example, we cannot focus on negative communication without recognizing how couples’ personalities and stressful environments will limit the benefits they can achieve from communication training.

I see this not as evidence that we need multiple forms of therapy geared toward couples with different traits, but more that our interventions need to continue recognizing and addressing the multiple factors that affect couples’ lives. My guess is that it is likely to be quite difficult to fully “match” traits with specific forms of therapy to increase success when there are multiple factors at play.

BC: You mention that the data holds some promise for early identification of at-risk couples, but temper this pretty heavily, saying that “it is nonetheless discouraging because it suggests that the task of strengthening these relationships must address a wide range of possible causes for the distress, some of which may be difficult to modify.” Could you expand on this?

JL: Not only are the couples who go on to experience distress those with multiple risk factors, but some of these risk factors are likely to be quite stable, particularly their personalities and the stress they encounter. We also identify this risk very early in the relationship, which means that by the time couples present for therapy (which they are notoriously slow to do), these distressing circumstances have likely plagued them for several years.

That said, I’m still optimistic about therapy possibly changing these trajectories and ultimately reducing divorce risk for these couples, particularly if intervention occurs early and addresses multiple factors of couples’ lives (as integrative behavioral couple therapy and enhanced models of cognitive behavior therapy now do, among others).

BC: You briefly talk about public policy, suggesting that broad-based marriage promotion programs are not likely to be as successful as programs targeting “the challenging circumstances and chronic stresses likely to impede relationship maintenance.” In your ideal world, what would a program designed to reduce divorce look like?

JL: Ideally relationship education programs need to do more to address the complete gestalt of couples’ circumstances — their particular ways of interacting, their personal histories, and how the contexts they live and work in affect their relationships. How this would play out is still an open question, but could include modules such as personality characteristics and emotion regulation strategies, or work stress and how that affects home life, along with stress management techniques. Special attention needs to be given to recruiting and retaining high-risk couples, as this presents the best opportunity to prevent distress and divorce.

I would also like to see more attention given to factors that can promote relationship stability. These findings indicate that many couples have stable levels of satisfaction over time, so how can we help them maintain and even enhance their relationships? For example, Art Aron and his colleagues (Aron, Normon, Aron, McKenna, & Heyman, 2000) have suggested that participating in novel activities can enhance couples’ relationship quality. Our programs must do more to promote relationship functioning, in addition to helping prevent deterioration in relationships.

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Comments are welcome below. In addition, you can email me at ben[at]bencaldwell.com, or help prevent deterioration in my Twitter feed.

To ease stress, and maybe save your marriage, try doing nothing

When it comes to making a healthier self and a happier family, doing nothing may be the next big thing.                                                                                                                                                                                     

TratakaOne of the hardest things for many of us (myself included) to fathom when we dedicate our careers to solving problems is that sometimes the best solution is no solution at all — just do nothing. Refraining from action can be just as vital a problem-solving strategy as taking action.

Michele Weiner-Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, offers a touching blog entry about how doing nothing helped her own marriage. And there’s the website that challenges you to do nothing for two minutes, which is harder than it sounds if you’re used to moving at a fast pace.

Best of all: Doing nothing can be surprisingly effective.

“Taking a moment to do nothing can be very centering and calming. It allows you to slow the entire experience down and get back to a place of rational thought,” says my good friend and Caldwell-Clark cofounder Aimee Clark. Indeed, doing nothing can be a surprisingly useful treatment for depression, which fairly quickly improves on its own in as many as 1 in 5 untreated cases. (Naturally, if you’re experiencing depression, talk it over with a doctor or mental health professional — just keep “no treatment” on the table as an option.) And doing nothing can improve family life; the tendency for kids to be over-scheduled has been widely covered. The impact of that hyperscheduling may actually be good for kids, but at the same time, studies routinely show that families do better when they simply spend time together… even if they aren’t actually doing anything in that time.

How does one go from doing a lot to doing nothing, even if for just a few minutes a day?

“Commit to one 5-minute practice per day that invokes the nothingness. You can do a simple exercise I call Choosing Your Thoughts, which engages the breath and mind to help you do just that. As you inhale and exhale through your nose, say to yourself, ‘I am aware that I’m doing nothing,'” says Clark. “You can even add a smile, which will help you to enjoy the exercise.”